Dell PS/2 PC104 keyboard doesn't work correctly in DOS?

[Ant]

Hi.

Do you happen to know why my current PS/2 Dell PC104 (SK-8110 model)
doesn't work correctly when I boot up DOS (e.g., Windows 98's) from a
bootable 3.5" disk or CDs? The keyboard's arrow keys don't work, shift
key stuck (entering numbers showed symbols, capitalized letters, etc.),
insert mode on, using insert key showed 0, etc. Same thing if I run a
DOS GUI program like old Norton Ghost 2003.

I do not have this problems in Windows XP Pro. SP3, Debian/Linux, and
CMOS. I tried different PS/2 PC104 keyboards like my old generic Chicony
and an older Dell (RT7D20) brands. They all had no problems. I also
tried direct connection (not using any adapters) instead of using an old
KVM. I don't understand why this specific one has problems. It's not old
either since I got it new from someone about a year ago.

Thank you in advance. :)

[Colin Wilson]

Post by Ant
Do you happen to know why my current PS/2 Dell PC104 (SK-8110 model)
doesn't work correctly when I boot up DOS (e.g., Windows 98's) from a
bootable 3.5" disk or CDs?

IIRC there are ways to set the keymap used within config.sys

Nicking these answers from <http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?
qid=1020515&page=9> try...

.......
Do this by going to Run, type MSCONFIG, click on the autoexec.bat tab
and untick these lines found there:

mode con codepage prepare=((850) C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\ega.cpi)
mode con codepage select=850
keyb uk,,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\keyboard.sys

While you are there, clear these lines appearing under Config.sys:

device=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\display.sys con=(ega,,1)
Country=044,850,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\country.sys
.......

You'd need to check what the different country settings are though i'm
afraid :-}

[Ant]

Hi. Thanks for the quick reply, but why would I need to run
msconfig.exe? This isn't Windows' issue. This is a DOS boot issue on
bootable medias (e.g., 3.5" and CDs).

Post by Colin Wilson

Post by Ant
Do you happen to know why my current PS/2 Dell PC104 (SK-8110 model)
doesn't work correctly when I boot up DOS (e.g., Windows 98's) from a
bootable 3.5" disk or CDs?

IIRC there are ways to set the keymap used within config.sys
Nicking these answers from <http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?
qid=1020515&page=9> try...
.......
Do this by going to Run, type MSCONFIG, click on the autoexec.bat tab
mode con codepage prepare=((850) C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\ega.cpi)
mode con codepage select=850
keyb uk,,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\keyboard.sys
device=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\display.sys con=(ega,,1)
Country=044,850,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\country.sys
.......
You'd need to check what the different country settings are though i'm
afraid :-}

[Colin Wilson]

Post by Ant
Hi. Thanks for the quick reply, but why would I need to run
msconfig.exe? This isn't Windows' issue. This is a DOS boot issue on
bootable medias (e.g., 3.5" and CDs).

While I copied it from a website referring to windows, the settings
apply to a DOS configuration.

It might be worth trying a couple of variants on a boot floppy to see
what works for you (edit / reboot a few times).

What country are you in, and has it worked ok with another keyboard ?

[Ant]

Post by Colin Wilson

Post by Ant
Hi. Thanks for the quick reply, but why would I need to run
msconfig.exe? This isn't Windows' issue. This is a DOS boot issue on
bootable medias (e.g., 3.5" and CDs).

While I copied it from a website referring to windows, the settings
apply to a DOS configuration.
It might be worth trying a couple of variants on a boot floppy to see
what works for you (edit / reboot a few times).
What country are you in, and has it worked ok with another keyboard ?

I am in U.S. And yes, the bootable medias worked fine with other
keyboards that I mentioned in my original post. How can I tell if this
current keyboard is not for US? I noticed in one of my bootable 3.5"
disks, it didn't have any display.sys, country.sys, etc. And this was
with an IBM DOS. The others were MS DOS.

[Colin Wilson]

Post by Ant

Post by Colin Wilson
What country are you in, and has it worked ok with another keyboard ?

I am in U.S. And yes, the bootable medias worked fine with other
keyboards that I mentioned in my original post. How can I tell if this
current keyboard is not for US?

OK, i'm stumped :-}

As for whether the keyboard was not for the US, if all the keys are
where you'd expect them to be, i'm guessing it's a US keyboard :-}

(says me, typing on an IBM Model M keyboard that was born on 19th
November 1989, recently salvaged from work where it was about to be
thrown out - cleaned, USB->PS2 adaptor bought, and brought back into
service for my box at home)

[Ben Myers]

Post by Colin Wilson

Post by Ant

Post by Colin Wilson
What country are you in, and has it worked ok with another keyboard ?

I am in U.S. And yes, the bootable medias worked fine with other
keyboards that I mentioned in my original post. How can I tell if this
current keyboard is not for US?

OK, i'm stumped :-}
As for whether the keyboard was not for the US, if all the keys are
where you'd expect them to be, i'm guessing it's a US keyboard :-}
(says me, typing on an IBM Model M keyboard that was born on 19th
November 1989, recently salvaged from work where it was about to be
thrown out - cleaned, USB->PS2 adaptor bought, and brought back into
service for my box at home)

Good man! My Model M is dated May 4, 1989. Don't you just love it?

... Ben Myers

[Colin Wilson]

Post by Ben Myers
Good man! My Model M is dated May 4, 1989. Don't you just love it?

I do - but just to rub salt into the wounds after trying to find a
5.5mm nutdriver for about 3 weeks to take it apart to clean it, my
missus said "you should have just bought a new one" (i'd already told
her how much they were) - for anyone else who's interested though,
Unicomp now own the rights, and you can buy your very own here:

http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/

If you haven't used one before, the best description I ever found was:

"Designed when "real" typing on a quality keyboard was a required
skill to use a $5000 IBM personal computer."

and from elsewhere...

"The Model M weighs in around 2.25 kg / 5 lb depending on the exact
model, and absolutely will not move around on your desk while typing.
Usefully, it's the only keyboard you could use to beat someone to
death if you're ever caught in a tight spot with only computer
peripherals to defend yourself."

[Ant]

Hmm, it seems like this is a motherboard issue and I don't know why
(doesn't make any sense). I tried the same problematic Dell keyboard on
a decade old laptop/notebook and my older desktop PC (4-5 years old).
Both did not show the symptoms with the same bootable medias. I don't
know what the heck is going on.

FYI with detailed specifications on the desktop PC that shows the
symptoms: AMD Athlon 64 X2 (dual core) 939 4600+ CPU, MSI K8N NEO4-F
(MS-7125; PCB v3.0) motherboard (NVIDIA nForce4), EVGA e-GeForce 7950GT
KO (512 MB; PCIe; NVIDIA; v174.74 beta driver since later versions broke
and removed their video mirror options), an used mid-tower Antec P180
ATX case with four 120mm case fans, onboard nForce network controller,
disabled onboard sound, 600 watts SeaSonic S12 PSU, 2 GB of PC3200 DDR
RAM total (two 1 GB of RAMs [Patriot/PDP Systems + Kingston], Broadband
Technologies Air2PC-ATSC-PCI HDTV tuner card (r0.2; DVB; connected to a
DB2 HDTV bowtie antenna (30 miles)), ASUS TV Tuner Card 880 NTSC
(cx23880), Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS, Toshiba DVD-ROM SD-M1612
Rev. B 16X/48X ATAPI/IDE drive, Plextor PX-W1210 PlexWriter (12/10/32A;
IDE), 3 internal HDDs (Seagate 320 GB SATA 7200rpm HDD (3 Gb/sec),
Seagate ST380011A 80 GB HDD, and Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 Plus
ST3120026A 120 GB (8 MB cache; 7200 RPM)), 3.5" TEAC disk drive, Windows
XP Professional SP3 (Internet Explorer 6.0 SP3; DirectX 9.0c (latest
month), all updates), and Klipsch ProMedia v.2-400 (4.1 setup; analog).

Computers are weird.

Post by Ant
Hi.
Do you happen to know why my current PS/2 Dell PC104 (SK-8110 model)
doesn't work correctly when I boot up DOS (e.g., Windows 98's) from a
bootable 3.5" disk or CDs? The keyboard's arrow keys don't work, shift
key stuck (entering numbers showed symbols, capitalized letters, etc.),
insert mode on, using insert key showed 0, etc. Same thing if I run a
DOS GUI program like old Norton Ghost 2003.
I do not have this problems in Windows XP Pro. SP3, Debian/Linux, and
CMOS. I tried different PS/2 PC104 keyboards like my old generic Chicony
and an older Dell (RT7D20) brands. They all had no problems. I also
tried direct connection (not using any adapters) instead of using an old
KVM. I don't understand why this specific one has problems. It's not old
either since I got it new from someone about a year ago.
Thank you in advance. :)

--
"Busy as ants hurrying orcs were digging, digging lines of deep trenches
in a huge ring, just out of bowshot from the walls;" --The Return of the
King (book)
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address: ***@earthlink.netANT
( ) or ***@zimage.com
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.

[Ben Myers]

Post by Ant
Hmm, it seems like this is a motherboard issue and I don't know why
(doesn't make any sense). I tried the same problematic Dell keyboard on
a decade old laptop/notebook and my older desktop PC (4-5 years old).
Both did not show the symptoms with the same bootable medias. I don't
know what the heck is going on.
FYI with detailed specifications on the desktop PC that shows the
symptoms: AMD Athlon 64 X2 (dual core) 939 4600+ CPU, MSI K8N NEO4-F
(MS-7125; PCB v3.0) motherboard (NVIDIA nForce4), EVGA e-GeForce 7950GT
KO (512 MB; PCIe; NVIDIA; v174.74 beta driver since later versions broke
and removed their video mirror options), an used mid-tower Antec P180
ATX case with four 120mm case fans, onboard nForce network controller,
disabled onboard sound, 600 watts SeaSonic S12 PSU, 2 GB of PC3200 DDR
RAM total (two 1 GB of RAMs [Patriot/PDP Systems + Kingston], Broadband
Technologies Air2PC-ATSC-PCI HDTV tuner card (r0.2; DVB; connected to a
DB2 HDTV bowtie antenna (30 miles)), ASUS TV Tuner Card 880 NTSC
(cx23880), Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS, Toshiba DVD-ROM SD-M1612
Rev. B 16X/48X ATAPI/IDE drive, Plextor PX-W1210 PlexWriter (12/10/32A;
IDE), 3 internal HDDs (Seagate 320 GB SATA 7200rpm HDD (3 Gb/sec),
Seagate ST380011A 80 GB HDD, and Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 Plus
ST3120026A 120 GB (8 MB cache; 7200 RPM)), 3.5" TEAC disk drive, Windows
XP Professional SP3 (Internet Explorer 6.0 SP3; DirectX 9.0c (latest
month), all updates), and Klipsch ProMedia v.2-400 (4.1 setup; analog).
Computers are weird.

Post by Ant
Hi.
Do you happen to know why my current PS/2 Dell PC104 (SK-8110 model)
doesn't work correctly when I boot up DOS (e.g., Windows 98's) from a
bootable 3.5" disk or CDs? The keyboard's arrow keys don't work, shift
key stuck (entering numbers showed symbols, capitalized letters,
etc.), insert mode on, using insert key showed 0, etc. Same thing if I
run a DOS GUI program like old Norton Ghost 2003.
I do not have this problems in Windows XP Pro. SP3, Debian/Linux, and
CMOS. I tried different PS/2 PC104 keyboards like my old generic
Chicony and an older Dell (RT7D20) brands. They all had no problems. I
also tried direct connection (not using any adapters) instead of using
an old KVM. I don't understand why this specific one has problems.
It's not old either since I got it new from someone about a year ago.
Thank you in advance. :)

"Computers are wierd." Keyboards are wierd. The old 101-key IBM
clicky-clack keyboard established the standard for the PS/2 connector
back when IBM launched the PS/2 computers in '87 or thereabouts. You'd
think all PS/2 keyboards meet the standard, and that all motherboards
are designed to meet standard. Nope. I've run into other combinations
of keyboard and system that either do not work at all or work badly.

You have a MicroStar motherboard there. MicroStar has had other
screw-ups with its motherboards, including exploding or oozing
capacitors. MicroStar is not the paragon of high quality engineering
and manufacturing... Ben Myers

[Ant]

Post by Ben Myers

Post by Ant
Hmm, it seems like this is a motherboard issue and I don't know why
(doesn't make any sense). I tried the same problematic Dell keyboard
on a decade old laptop/notebook and my older desktop PC (4-5 years
old). Both did not show the symptoms with the same bootable medias. I
don't know what the heck is going on.
FYI with detailed specifications on the desktop PC that shows the
symptoms: AMD Athlon 64 X2 (dual core) 939 4600+ CPU, MSI K8N NEO4-F
(MS-7125; PCB v3.0) motherboard (NVIDIA nForce4), EVGA e-GeForce
7950GT KO (512 MB; PCIe; NVIDIA; v174.74 beta driver since later
versions broke and removed their video mirror options), an used
mid-tower Antec P180 ATX case with four 120mm case fans, onboard
nForce network controller, disabled onboard sound, 600 watts SeaSonic
S12 PSU, 2 GB of PC3200 DDR RAM total (two 1 GB of RAMs [Patriot/PDP
Systems + Kingston], Broadband Technologies Air2PC-ATSC-PCI HDTV tuner
card (r0.2; DVB; connected to a DB2 HDTV bowtie antenna (30 miles)),
ASUS TV Tuner Card 880 NTSC (cx23880), Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2
ZS, Toshiba DVD-ROM SD-M1612 Rev. B 16X/48X ATAPI/IDE drive, Plextor
PX-W1210 PlexWriter (12/10/32A; IDE), 3 internal HDDs (Seagate 320 GB
SATA 7200rpm HDD (3 Gb/sec), Seagate ST380011A 80 GB HDD, and Seagate
Barracuda 7200.7 Plus ST3120026A 120 GB (8 MB cache; 7200 RPM)), 3.5"
TEAC disk drive, Windows XP Professional SP3 (Internet Explorer 6.0
SP3; DirectX 9.0c (latest month), all updates), and Klipsch ProMedia
v.2-400 (4.1 setup; analog).
Computers are weird.

Post by Ant
Hi.
Do you happen to know why my current PS/2 Dell PC104 (SK-8110 model)
doesn't work correctly when I boot up DOS (e.g., Windows 98's) from a
bootable 3.5" disk or CDs? The keyboard's arrow keys don't work,
shift key stuck (entering numbers showed symbols, capitalized
letters, etc.), insert mode on, using insert key showed 0, etc. Same
thing if I run a DOS GUI program like old Norton Ghost 2003.
I do not have this problems in Windows XP Pro. SP3, Debian/Linux, and
CMOS. I tried different PS/2 PC104 keyboards like my old generic
Chicony and an older Dell (RT7D20) brands. They all had no problems.
I also tried direct connection (not using any adapters) instead of
using an old KVM. I don't understand why this specific one has
problems. It's not old either since I got it new from someone about a
year ago.
Thank you in advance. :)

"Computers are wierd." Keyboards are wierd. The old 101-key IBM
clicky-clack keyboard established the standard for the PS/2 connector
back when IBM launched the PS/2 computers in '87 or thereabouts. You'd
think all PS/2 keyboards meet the standard, and that all motherboards
are designed to meet standard. Nope. I've run into other combinations
of keyboard and system that either do not work at all or work badly.
You have a MicroStar motherboard there. MicroStar has had other
screw-ups with its motherboards, including exploding or oozing
capacitors. MicroStar is not the paragon of high quality engineering
and manufacturing... Ben Myers

Interesting. I will ask in MSI forums and newsgroups about this. Maybe
it is a known issue. [shrugs]
--
"I got worms! That's what we're going to call it. We're going to
specialize in selling worm farms. You know like ant farms. What's the
matter, a little tense about the flight?" --Lloyd Christmas (Dumb and
Dumber movie)
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address: ***@earthlink.netANT
( ) or ***@zimage.com
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.

[Jure Sah]

Post by Ben Myers
You have a MicroStar motherboard there. MicroStar has had other
screw-ups with its motherboards, including exploding or oozing
capacitors. MicroStar is not the paragon of high quality engineering
and manufacturing... Ben Myers

Bullshit much?

[Ben Myers]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Post by Ben Myers
You have a MicroStar motherboard there. MicroStar has had other
screw-ups with its motherboards, including exploding or oozing
capacitors. MicroStar is not the paragon of high quality engineering
and manufacturing... Ben Myers

Bullshit much?
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Nope. True fact. You can look it up. For example:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/mainboards/display/20040602153002.html

or

http://www.badcaps.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=19

Microstar made mobos with bad caps for IBM P4 systems, contributing to
IBM's decision to sell off its desktop/laptop business to Lenovo.

If you work for Microstar or have some sort of financial interest in
their products, I understand why you might be upset... Ben Myers

[Jure Sah]

Post by Ben Myers
Microstar made mobos with bad caps for IBM P4 systems, contributing to
IBM's decision to sell off its desktop/laptop business to Lenovo.
If you work for Microstar or have some sort of financial interest in
their products, I understand why you might be upset... Ben Myers

For any modern system I have enough first hand experience that MSI are
the only brand out there that make quality motherboards. I build and
service PCs.

I have tried various other, Asus, Gigabyte, Intel (HP), Epox, Asrock.
Boards from those manufacturers either came dead from the shop or were
destroyed in an overheating situation (or spontaneously for Intel
boards), but MSI never! I even had a really bad overheating case once
where the heat fried a RAM module, but the MSI motherboard it was in,
RAM slots and all, survived unharmed. MSI is also the only (besides
maybe Asus) which packages a decent BIOS with their boards.

And this was the whole spectrum of motherboards, not only high end ones.

The only dead MSI board I have ever seen was an early Socket A / P2,
which however, is ancient and hardly relevant for a modern system
builder. The old boards (yellow) are nothing like the new ones (red and
black).

LP,
Jure

[Ben Myers]

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Hash: SHA1

Post by Ben Myers
Microstar made mobos with bad caps for IBM P4 systems, contributing to
IBM's decision to sell off its desktop/laptop business to Lenovo.
If you work for Microstar or have some sort of financial interest in
their products, I understand why you might be upset... Ben Myers

For any modern system I have enough first hand experience that MSI are
the only brand out there that make quality motherboards. I build and
service PCs.
I have tried various other, Asus, Gigabyte, Intel (HP), Epox, Asrock.
Boards from those manufacturers either came dead from the shop or were
destroyed in an overheating situation (or spontaneously for Intel
boards), but MSI never! I even had a really bad overheating case once
where the heat fried a RAM module, but the MSI motherboard it was in,
RAM slots and all, survived unharmed. MSI is also the only (besides
maybe Asus) which packages a decent BIOS with their boards.
And this was the whole spectrum of motherboards, not only high end ones.
The only dead MSI board I have ever seen was an early Socket A / P2,
which however, is ancient and hardly relevant for a modern system
builder. The old boards (yellow) are nothing like the new ones (red and
black).
LP,
Jure
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"Intel (HP)"???? Not in recent years. Only back in the days of the
Pentium LPX Pavilion systems did HP use Intel OEM boards. For a long
time now, Asus has been HP's motherboard OEM of choice. For a time,
back in P3/Celeron days, HP used Trigem boards in Pavilions, same as
eMachines, and HP shared the same manufacturer and parts with eMachines.
Different color plastic and paint, though, so you could tell them
apart... Ben Myers

[Tom Lake]

Post by Ben Myers
Microstar made mobos with bad caps for IBM P4 systems, contributing to
IBM's decision to sell off its desktop/laptop business to Lenovo.

Those caps were made by another company and sold companies other than
MSI also. Just because MSI was the defendant in the lawsuit doesn't mean
they were actually at fault. Anyone can sue anyone for anything. Unless
you actually have a record of the verdict, however, don't be too quick to
call MSI negligent.

Post by Ben Myers
If you work for Microstar or have some sort of financial interest in
their products, I understand why you might be upset... Ben Myers

I don't have any interest in MSI at all, not even owning one of their
motherboards.

Tom Lake

[Ben Myers]

Post by Tom Lake

Post by Ben Myers
Microstar made mobos with bad caps for IBM P4 systems, contributing to
IBM's decision to sell off its desktop/laptop business to Lenovo.

Those caps were made by another company and sold companies other than
MSI also. Just because MSI was the defendant in the lawsuit doesn't mean
they were actually at fault. Anyone can sue anyone for anything. Unless
you actually have a record of the verdict, however, don't be too quick
to call MSI negligent.

Post by Ben Myers
If you work for Microstar or have some sort of financial interest in
their products, I understand why you might be upset... Ben Myers

I don't have any interest in MSI at all, not even owning one of their
motherboards.
Tom Lake

The lawsuit against MSI was just one bit of information about MSI's
exploding and oozing caps, turned up as a Googled response to the MSI
defender. I have personally handled some of the boards in IBM P4s, and
they had bad caps and clear markings that MSI was the OEM. True, MSI
was not the only company victimized by bad caps, but the whole mess came
about due to inadequate quality control and testing on their part, on
the part of other mfrs, and on the part of the mfr(s) of the caps. Were
the bad caps another fraudulent slimeball effort, like the latest
Chinese product scandals? We'll never know.

FWIW, my own institutional memory identifies MicroStar first and
foremost with the bad caps debacle. Now you can blame me for having a
faulty memory, if you want. But the name sure showed up in the trade
press when caps were exploding.

Getting back on topic, I am not sure who made the Dell Optiplex GX270
boards which also had bad caps and caused a major Dell recall/repair
effort for the large businesses who bought them. I should look closely
at the board in a GX270 I have here to see if there is a clue to the
OEM. For sure, it was not Intel, who mark all their boards, generic and
OEM, in a very standardized fashion... Ben Myers

[Paul]

Post by Ant
Hmm, it seems like this is a motherboard issue and I don't know why
(doesn't make any sense). I tried the same problematic Dell keyboard on
a decade old laptop/notebook and my older desktop PC (4-5 years old).
Both did not show the symptoms with the same bootable medias. I don't
know what the heck is going on.
FYI with detailed specifications on the desktop PC that shows the
symptoms: AMD Athlon 64 X2 (dual core) 939 4600+ CPU, MSI K8N NEO4-F
(MS-7125; PCB v3.0) motherboard (NVIDIA nForce4), EVGA e-GeForce 7950GT
KO (512 MB; PCIe; NVIDIA; v174.74 beta driver since later versions broke
and removed their video mirror options), an used mid-tower Antec P180
ATX case with four 120mm case fans, onboard nForce network controller,
disabled onboard sound, 600 watts SeaSonic S12 PSU, 2 GB of PC3200 DDR
RAM total (two 1 GB of RAMs [Patriot/PDP Systems + Kingston], Broadband
Technologies Air2PC-ATSC-PCI HDTV tuner card (r0.2; DVB; connected to a
DB2 HDTV bowtie antenna (30 miles)), ASUS TV Tuner Card 880 NTSC
(cx23880), Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS, Toshiba DVD-ROM SD-M1612
Rev. B 16X/48X ATAPI/IDE drive, Plextor PX-W1210 PlexWriter (12/10/32A;
IDE), 3 internal HDDs (Seagate 320 GB SATA 7200rpm HDD (3 Gb/sec),
Seagate ST380011A 80 GB HDD, and Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 Plus
ST3120026A 120 GB (8 MB cache; 7200 RPM)), 3.5" TEAC disk drive, Windows
XP Professional SP3 (Internet Explorer 6.0 SP3; DirectX 9.0c (latest
month), all updates), and Klipsch ProMedia v.2-400 (4.1 setup; analog).
Computers are weird.

They are indeed weird. Try section 9.11 Keyboard controller here.
The SuperI/O chip on the motherboard, has the interface to the PS/2
keyboard and mouse. There is an actual 8 bit microcontroller inside
there, emulating an 8042. What is it doing ? Who knows...
It is not documented.

http://www.ite.com.tw/product_info/file/pc/IT8712F_V0.9.3.pdf

Keyboards are subject to translation, so at least at some level,
what comes from the keyboard might not be a "character" as such,
and rather a keydown/keyup code. The OS may translate that.

I know on some other non-PC computers, there is an actual
dip switch on the bottom of the keyboard, hidden by a small
cover, and the switches control some translations. The PC
works differently, because you don't see any switches on the
keyboard. (None of mine have any.) So something is doing
translation.

Some OSes support "changing the keyboard map", and that
may show itself as strange characters coming from the
keyboard, when it isn't set properly. Does DOS do that ?
Does DOS has a "locale" ?

You'll have to do some more searches and fill in the details.

In the case of some other non-PC computers, the path from
keyboard to screen, takes a whole textbook to document. The
scheme may not be as trivial as you think.

Some other teaser URLs.

http://pcguide.com/ref/mbsys/chip/kbctrl-c.html

http://www.dewassoc.com/kbase/legacy.htm

There are other tricks hiding down there, like copying
a character from a USB keyboard, and making it look like
it came from the PS/2 interface. That helps, when an OS
doesn't support USB, but does know PS/2.

Hours of research ahead...

Good luck,
Paul

Post by Ant

Post by Ant
Hi.
Do you happen to know why my current PS/2 Dell PC104 (SK-8110 model)
doesn't work correctly when I boot up DOS (e.g., Windows 98's) from a
bootable 3.5" disk or CDs? The keyboard's arrow keys don't work, shift
key stuck (entering numbers showed symbols, capitalized letters,
etc.), insert mode on, using insert key showed 0, etc. Same thing if I
run a DOS GUI program like old Norton Ghost 2003.
I do not have this problems in Windows XP Pro. SP3, Debian/Linux, and
CMOS. I tried different PS/2 PC104 keyboards like my old generic
Chicony and an older Dell (RT7D20) brands. They all had no problems. I
also tried direct connection (not using any adapters) instead of using
an old KVM. I don't understand why this specific one has problems.
It's not old either since I got it new from someone about a year ago.
Thank you in advance. :)

[Ant]

Heh. For now, I just use this old cheap generic keyboard to do anything
in pure DOS. How often do I go there? Rarely. I posted my issue in MSI
forums to see if others have heard/seen this problem before.

Post by Paul
They are indeed weird. Try section 9.11 Keyboard controller here.
The SuperI/O chip on the motherboard, has the interface to the PS/2
keyboard and mouse. There is an actual 8 bit microcontroller inside
there, emulating an 8042. What is it doing ? Who knows...
It is not documented.
http://www.ite.com.tw/product_info/file/pc/IT8712F_V0.9.3.pdf
Keyboards are subject to translation, so at least at some level,
what comes from the keyboard might not be a "character" as such,
and rather a keydown/keyup code. The OS may translate that.
I know on some other non-PC computers, there is an actual
dip switch on the bottom of the keyboard, hidden by a small
cover, and the switches control some translations. The PC
works differently, because you don't see any switches on the
keyboard. (None of mine have any.) So something is doing
translation.
Some OSes support "changing the keyboard map", and that
may show itself as strange characters coming from the
keyboard, when it isn't set properly. Does DOS do that ?
Does DOS has a "locale" ?
You'll have to do some more searches and fill in the details.
In the case of some other non-PC computers, the path from
keyboard to screen, takes a whole textbook to document. The
scheme may not be as trivial as you think.
Some other teaser URLs.
http://pcguide.com/ref/mbsys/chip/kbctrl-c.html
http://www.dewassoc.com/kbase/legacy.htm
There are other tricks hiding down there, like copying
a character from a USB keyboard, and making it look like
it came from the PS/2 interface. That helps, when an OS
doesn't support USB, but does know PS/2.
Hours of research ahead...

[Jure Sah]

Post by Ant
Do you happen to know why my current PS/2 Dell PC104 (SK-8110 model)
doesn't work correctly when I boot up DOS (e.g., Windows 98's) from a
bootable 3.5" disk or CDs? The keyboard's arrow keys don't work, shift
key stuck (entering numbers showed symbols, capitalized letters,
etc.), insert mode on, using insert key showed 0, etc. Same thing if I
run a DOS GUI program like old Norton Ghost 2003.

Try toggling NumLock.

LP,
Jure

[Ant]

Post by Jure Sah

Post by Ant
Do you happen to know why my current PS/2 Dell PC104 (SK-8110 model)
doesn't work correctly when I boot up DOS (e.g., Windows 98's) from a
bootable 3.5" disk or CDs? The keyboard's arrow keys don't work, shift
key stuck (entering numbers showed symbols, capitalized letters,
etc.), insert mode on, using insert key showed 0, etc. Same thing if I
run a DOS GUI program like old Norton Ghost 2003.

Try toggling NumLock.

Jure--If you mean in DOS prompt, then I tried it. No change. :( I also
looked for a way to disable it turning on in CMOS, but I didn't find it.
I guess this motherboard's CMOS doesn't have that option. :( Thanks for
the suggestion. :)

[Ant]

Post by Ant
Do you happen to know why my current PS/2 Dell PC104 (SK-8110 model)
doesn't work correctly when I boot up DOS (e.g., Windows 98's) from a
bootable 3.5" disk or CDs? The keyboard's arrow keys don't work, shift
key stuck (entering numbers showed symbols, capitalized letters,
etc.), insert mode on, using insert key showed 0, etc. Same thing if I
run a DOS GUI program like old Norton Ghost 2003.

It looks like my computer hardware friend fixed it. He messed with the
voltages in CMOS, and we tested it twice with a 3.5" DOS boot disk. Now,
it works (I hope).
--
"Left right left right we're army ants. We swarm we fight. We have no
home. We roam. We race. You're lucky if we miss your place." --Douglas
Florian (The Army Ants Poem)
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address: ***@earthlink.netANT
( ) or ***@zimage.com
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.

[William R. Walsh]

Hi!

Post by Ant
Do you happen to know why my current PS/2 Dell PC104
(SK-8110 model) doesn't work correctly when I boot
up DOS (e.g., Windows 98's) from a bootable 3.5" disk
or CDs?

My first thought would be that the keyboard is somehow malfunctioning.
Maybe that's why the person who had it put it away? I don't know how
it would be that it works normally in Windows, the CMOS setup tool and
Linux. You tried other keyboards with the computer, did you try
another computer with the offending keyboard?

For whatever reason, when you make a boot diskette from within Windows
XP (My Computer > Right Click Floppy Drive > Format > Make a Bootable
System Disk), Windows prepares the disk so that it runs KEYB.COM.
Perhaps this was done to configure or work around keyboards that cause
problems.

I would also check the Windows Event Log and see if anything
pertaining to i8042prt is being logged with the offending keyboard
plugged in.

(It is also worth mentioning (although it seems that you ruled this
out) that some KVM switches are *evil* or at least really, really half
baked. If you have problems with one, I've found that the Raritan
units work without exception.)

William

[Ant]

Post by William R. Walsh
Hi!

Post by Ant
Do you happen to know why my current PS/2 Dell PC104
(SK-8110 model) doesn't work correctly when I boot
up DOS (e.g., Windows 98's) from a bootable 3.5" disk
or CDs?

My first thought would be that the keyboard is somehow malfunctioning.
Maybe that's why the person who had it put it away? I don't know how
it would be that it works normally in Windows, the CMOS setup tool and
Linux. You tried other keyboards with the computer, did you try
another computer with the offending keyboard?

Yes, See my post on 12/26/2008 8:21 PM PST: "Hmm, it seems like this is
a motherboard issue and I don't know why (doesn't make any sense). I
tried the same problematic Dell keyboard on a decade old laptop/notebook
and my older desktop PC (4-5 years old). Both did not show the symptoms
with the same bootable medias. I don't know what the heck is going on.

FYI with detailed specifications on the desktop PC that shows the
symptoms: AMD Athlon 64 X2 (dual core) 939 4600+ CPU, MSI K8N NEO4-F
(MS-7125; PCB v3.0) motherboard (NVIDIA nForce4), EVGA e-GeForce 7950GT
KO (512 MB; PCIe; NVIDIA; v174.74 beta driver since later versions broke
and removed their video mirror options), an used mid-tower Antec P180
ATX case with four 120mm case fans, onboard nForce network controller,
disabled onboard sound, 600 watts SeaSonic S12 PSU, 2 GB of PC3200 DDR
RAM total (two 1 GB of RAMs [Patriot/PDP Systems + Kingston], Broadband
Technologies Air2PC-ATSC-PCI HDTV tuner card (r0.2; DVB; connected to a
DB2 HDTV bowtie antenna (30 miles)), ASUS TV Tuner Card 880 NTSC
(cx23880), Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS, Toshiba DVD-ROM SD-M1612
Rev. B 16X/48X ATAPI/IDE drive, Plextor PX-W1210 PlexWriter (12/10/32A;
IDE), 3 internal HDDs (Seagate 320 GB SATA 7200rpm HDD (3 Gb/sec),
Seagate ST380011A 80 GB HDD, and Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 Plus
ST3120026A 120 GB (8 MB cache; 7200 RPM)), 3.5" TEAC disk drive, Windows
XP Professional SP3 (Internet Explorer 6.0 SP3; DirectX 9.0c (latest
month), all updates), and Klipsch ProMedia v.2-400 (4.1 setup; analog).

Computers are weird."

Post by William R. Walsh
For whatever reason, when you make a boot diskette from within Windows
XP (My Computer > Right Click Floppy Drive > Format > Make a Bootable
System Disk), Windows prepares the disk so that it runs KEYB.COM.
Perhaps this was done to configure or work around keyboards that cause
problems.

Hmm. Does PC-DOS use keyb.com? I don't see any keyb.com in the bootable
DOS medias I used.

Post by William R. Walsh
I would also check the Windows Event Log and see if anything
pertaining to i8042prt is being logged with the offending keyboard
plugged in.

Nothing in XP Pro. SP3's event logs. I searched for i8042prt.

Post by William R. Walsh
(It is also worth mentioning (although it seems that you ruled this
out) that some KVM switches are *evil* or at least really, really half
baked. If you have problems with one, I've found that the Raritan
units work without exception.)

Well, I did try hooking up the keyboard directly to the motherboard.
Speaking of motherboard, I wonder if there is something in there that
can cause this weirdness? I know I disable some things like AMD's
Cool'n'Quiet, parallel port, RAID, etc.
--
"For while the giants have just been talking about an information
superhighway, the ants have actually been building one: the Internet."
From "The Accidental Superhighway." The Economist: A Survey of the
Internet, 1-7 July 1995, insert.
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address: ***@earthlink.netANT
( ) or ***@zimage.com
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.

[William R. Walsh]

Hi!

Post by Ant
Well, I did try hooking up the keyboard directly to the motherboard.
Speaking of motherboard, I wonder if there is something in there
that can cause this weirdness?

Well, sure. I've never had any complaints from an MSI motherboard, although
they are not my first choice. Without tracing out the designs of both
keyboard and motherboard, an exact answer isn't likely to show up other than
through dumb luck.

The ICs used to perform these functions (in this case, the LPCIO) are
usually pretty stable and mature. The ITE parts seem to be of generally good
quality. But you never know what some enterprising motherboard engineer is
going to do when he or she lays out the circuit traces and support
components. Sometimes they do weird things, other times circuitry that
should have been included is left out...probably for cost reasons.

And sometimes two devices that should work together (like your keyboard and
PC) just don't.

It shouldn't matter too much if you disable hardware that you obviously
aren't using, such as the parallel port. (I don't see a good reason to
disable AMD CnQ, unless you happen to need every possible ounce of
performance from your CPU.) The only time you'd be likely to get in trouble
is when you change settings whose effects are not obvous. That can be a
fault of the motherboard manual--I see lots of them that are unclear about
some settings and/or don't explain others at all.

William

[BillW50]

In news:a38208e8-8a1d-4ec2-a232-***@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com,
William R. Walsh typed on Sat, 27 Dec 2008 07:02:10 -0800 (PST):
[...]

Post by William R. Walsh
(It is also worth mentioning (although it seems that you ruled this
out) that some KVM switches are *evil* or at least really, really half
baked. If you have problems with one, I've found that the Raritan
units work without exception.)

Hi William! I only have one KVM switch. It sports one USB and one SVGA as an
output. And switches between two inputs. And AFAIK it works really well. I
don't use it anymore though as I have stored my desktops away and I just use
laptops nowadays and a KVM switch isn't really necessary. Although I like to
know more about this evil and half baked problems some have with them.